aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 09:01 AM
Looks like the original song was called "Tip Toes" by Boots Faye. Not really sure the significance of this other than that is shows somewhat what the guys were listening to at the time, or maybe what their parents were listening to. Also there is a song entitled "Break Time" on Dick Dale's King of the Surf Guitar, however it is a totally different song. All 3 of these would have been released during 1963. Very interesting! I also find it very interesting that they don't give any credit to Boots on the album. I guess it was a different time!
P.S. - I can't find the Showmen's version of Break Time on the internet anywhere, but if someone else can find it please link it. The only reason I know it is because I learned it and it is VERY FUN to play!
— Jeremy
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aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 09:03 AM
UPDATE - the only reason I discovered this was because I ran into this song, which could also have been the more likely version that Eddie heard as it has that real twang goin on. Again all in '63.
— Jeremy
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 10:36 AM
Most songs have a legacy like that, Dick Dale actually started out wanting to be a Country Western cat back when he started out as well.
Most kids in the early Surf years only had records to learn scales etc and just came up with variations for new songs etc. (Still being done that way today.) Besides big band influence Surf has a lot of Country Western influence as well. One example is Pipeline originally started out as a song called Liberty Valence (The movie) - It was inspired by the movie and a rework of the song Guitar Boogie slowed down (or at least sounds like it to me.) The B/C part came from some other song probably.
So many songs like that you could write a book on it really.
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aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 10:46 AM
Agreed Sam! I know there is a little Surf Music lore around Mr. Moto that involves a country song as well....
— Jeremy
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 11:14 AM
That's interesting you mentioned Mr Moto - That was another movie inspired song as well using the same Guitar boogie song as inspiration (The solo). It was from fiction a book written by John P. Marquand. Paul Johnson said he got the solo from a incredibly fast version of Guitar Boogie that came out in 1958. Its slowed down with some original variation in it.
One over looked element of Surf music in its seed of creation was inspiration by the movies as well as hit records in that time. Lots of pop culture in that time was used like all eras in music. Even the surf craze started with various movies in the late 1950's - Surfing had been around about a 100 years before that, but the movies inspired young kids to get into it in the late 1950's.
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John
Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 582
Monterey County, California
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 11:20 AM
"Pipeline" began as "Liberty's Whip," inspired by the movie "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence." Just an interesting title for an instrumental taken from a popular motion picture of the day (and a huge non-C&W, Top 10 hit by Gene Pitney in '62), as was "Pipeline," inspired by a surfing movie of the North Shore. Personally, I don't see or hear much country-western influence in early 60's surf music. Some perhaps, but not "a lot." You could also cite Richard Monsour's stage name as being suggested to him by a C&W disc jockey named T. Texas Tiny. But, these were more pop culture intersections, not necessarily influences.
— www.johnblair.us
www.soundofthesurf.com
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19194
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 11:21 AM
Surfing_Sam_61 wrote:
One example is Pipeline originally started out as a song called Liberty Valence (The movie)
The original title was "Liberty's Whip".
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 01:04 PM
Liberty Whip - that's it sorry
Yeah the main problem with musical influence is many forms evolved from the very same exact sources - in many cases a generation or so before the new genre. One example is Big Band music was all over the Americas in the 1930's so every country within that realm was heavily influenced by the form and had influence on later forms like surf no matter what influence like from Mexico or Hawaii etc The swing music was everywhere in those times preceding the Surf era.
Country and Western was huge in the clubs post World War II mainly because of the Big Band strikes for higher pay etc. . .The Country Cats like Maddox Brothers and Rose  were a very popular C&W band in California in 1947 & 48. They were first to use amplification on a big level on stage replacing many big band acts. Even the instrumentation line up was used as a model for later 1950's and 1960 bands - Many of the scales used on guitar was later used on 1950's - later it was tagged as Rockabilly - but they thought of themselves only as Country & Western acts at that time....
You can't deny Rockabilly as a influence I guess that's the confusion - that term came up long after the actual times the form started out - They considered them =selves C&W. But it goes back to about 1948 at country fairs etc
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10320
southern Michigan
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 01:07 PM
Jeremy, actually Eddie & the Showmen' "Break Time" was NOT released in '63 - it was recorded in '63, but not released until the '90s, when the Eddie & the Showmen CD came out. Just thought I'd point that out.
Eddie's playing on that track is just KILLER, and yes, very interesting to see that country influence in their music.
— Ivan
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aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 01:14 PM
Yep, good point Ivan. I saw that looking through discography.com. It's insane to me they only released a few of their tracks as singles. I deeply love every cut on that 90's release. Also have you seen/heard these? Got these from discography as well and it was the first I'd heard of them. Doesn't sound like our Eddie even though it's got their photo.
https://www.discogs.com/Eddie-The-Showmen-Showtime/release/3741370
— Jeremy
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aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 01:22 PM
HAHA I just realized that the actual record says "Eddie and the Snowmen"! That's crazy. Photos are definitely lifted from the Showmen though obviously, but these cannot be the same band. But it's also got Eddie Bertrand on the credits AND "Theme 1" is actually a song off of the 90's comp. So weird!
— Jeremy
Last edited: Mar 04, 2019 13:26:43
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10320
southern Michigan
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 01:32 PM
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Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 854
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 01:55 PM
I bet there's a story behind the Snowmen thing. Perhaps in 1980 there were contractual issues at play with the release of this older material and the Showmen name was intentionally avoided.
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aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 02:01 PM
That is quite possible Redfeather since it's obviously copyrighted Eddie Bertrand on the album. Perhaps these were his personal recordings? Very different sound than anything we've heard from them previously though.
— Jeremy
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tdsurf
Joined: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 409
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 02:28 PM
The record by "Moxie" is Eddie Bertrand, Moxie was his band in the 70's(-ish). That is him singing on Come on Babe, I recognize it from other recordings of him.
edit: I hadn't listened to the other youtube posted or songs but he is singing on other songs too.
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Last edited: Mar 04, 2019 14:30:38
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Surfing_Sam_61
Joined: Jan 15, 2019
Posts: 1515
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 02:38 PM
^ That's a great CD I have that one sells for over 30 dollars now. I use to know every song on there but forgot most of them by now.
Hey if you guys are into speed playing like I think you are, check this C&W guy out - Dick Dale mentioned once he was on a tour with this guy early on when he backed up Johnny Cash in the late 50's. Evidently Dick Dale was influenced by this guy early on.
lol Old Grandpa Jones is on rythmn in one scene
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Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1872
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Mar 04 2019 04:54 PM
tdsurf wrote:
The record by "Moxie" is Eddie Bertrand, Moxie was his band in the 70's(-ish). That is him singing on Come on Babe, I recognize it from other recordings of him.
edit: I hadn't listened to the other youtube posted or songs but he is singing on other songs too.
Moxie is the record label - http://www.richlabonte.net/moxierecords/
Here's all the releases. -Moxie releases
The record label credits Eddie Bertrand circa 1980
I think 'Snowmen' is a simple misspelling, since the cover has it correct.
I've heard these before, and wonder why "we are the Young" is Theme 1 here, and then properly titled on the Squad Car disc.
There are times when I can hear the old Eddie and The Showmen in these cuts. And that is definitely Eddie singing.
Here's an old thread about it.
https://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/19856/?page=1#p259048
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
Last edited: Mar 04, 2019 17:44:53
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