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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Jag/Jazzy Replacement Bridges - Redux 2019: Is the Mastery M1 Still the Best Overall Option?

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Greetings, Watermen! (Whoops! I mean, Water-people)

I've sorta found myself knee-deep in various Jags and Jazzmasters over this past 10+ years, and I simply can-NOT (will not!), live without them, but I still struggle mightily with the miserable stock (OEM) bridge assemblies - its just god-awful stuff . . . string-skip, rattling, buzzing, poor intonation, yada-yada.

So my question is . . . have things changed any, in the way of aftermarket bridge options for the offsets in recent years? Is the Mastery M1 still considered to be the best overall choice in terms resolving most of those common issues?

Many thanks!

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

Last edited: Feb 16, 2019 10:19:58

Hi Ringo, welcome to the forum. On this very common question, you'll find a host of different opinions, so the likelihood of getting a consensus on the Mastery is unlikely. Really the only way to find out is to buy one.

I personally bought one because of (let's not say hype) the supposed advantages, but I found it altered the tone, or maybe the sensations I was used to, more than I was comfortable with. Also, I never really had a problem with the stock hardware.

At the risk of asking a dumb question, have you played with thicker gauge strings, say .012?

And do you use thick or thin picks? I'm probably in the minority but I use thin picks (.50) which I think has several benefits, but one of them was significantly lessening strings popping out of the saddle.

Danny Snyder

Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF
_
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

I'm back playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

I had the same issues when I got my Jag. Took the guitar for a professional set up (someone who knew how to work on Jags), put 11s, some clear nailpolish to keep the height screws from moving, and voila...very few issues. Having said that, many do like after market bridges like the Mastery. It is worth a try.

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Guys,

Thanx for the warm welcome and your responses here, and yeah, I've tried most everything there is in the way of fixes. The biggest 'problem child' is my '62 AVRI Jag. It's set up perfectly, and I play 012-050 flats with it routinely. I've even tried a Mustang bridge, but with little luck. The stock bridge suffers from multiple shortcomings, most of which I can tolerate, but the two or three issues that I struggle with the most are the strings hitting the rear frame of the bridge and the oval head screw (even with saddle heights nearly maxed-out), and particularly, the inability to intonate it properly, On one or two strings (I think its the D and B (or possibly the G), the saddles 'bottom-out' (no more travel) either at the front or rear of the bridge frame, before it will intonate fully. Very frustrating.

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

Last edited: Feb 15, 2019 21:22:44

I personally bought one because of (let's not say hype) the supposed advantages, but I found it altered the tone, or maybe the sensations I was used to, more than I was comfortable with. Also, I never really had a problem with the stock hardware.

Me too, Mastery bridges are great but change the tone, my jaguar RI sounded quite different with the new bridge - lost some of that 'Jaguar sound'

'Surf Music Lasts Forever'

Wombat wrote:

I personally bought one because of (let's not say hype) the supposed advantages, but I found it altered the tone, or maybe the sensations I was used to, more than I was comfortable with. Also, I never really had a problem with the stock hardware.

Me too, Mastery bridges are great but change the tone, my jaguar RI sounded quite different with the new bridge - lost some of that 'Jaguar sound'

Well, there you go! That's two now that aren't necessarily on-board with the Mastery, and this is precisely the kind of thing I need to know. The price or money aren't the concern for me. Rather, its the potential loss or alteration of existing tone (which is currently "perfect"), and any continuation of existing problems, like 'pinging' (from strings striking the bridge frame or screws, etc.), or inability to intonate it properly.

Those are what matter most to me.

However, I've gone ahead and purchased a 7.25" Staytrem bridge for this thing (rather than the Mastery M1), so hopefully that will help things a bit. But one of the things that troubles me most with the factory (OEM) bridge on this Jag, is the fact that it needs to sit ALL the way down (literally atop the mute plate, with the two Allen post screws backed-off entirely), which is the lowest possible bridge height adjustment, in order to get anywhere near decent string height. Otherwise, the strings end-up WAY too high. And that doesn't quite set well with me. In other words, what's the point of having those tiny Allen screws (one each) inside the left and right bridge posts, to raise and lower the bridge, when those two screws are always gonna be backed-off entirely? That makes 'zero' sense to me. Hopefully, the Staytrem bridge will have somewhat shorter post columns.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone for your continued contributions here. I appreciate all of ya!

Cheers! Wink

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

Last edited: Feb 16, 2019 15:16:28

The Mastery is a complete perversion of the original bridge design. The ideal Jazzmaster bridge, as originally conceived, would hold the strings perfectly fixed to the saddles (HA!) and would rock freely back and forth with the motion of the vibrato.

The Mastery takes both of those main functions and does the exact opposite, creating nothing more than a solid piece of metal to drag your strings across, with less adjustability than the stock saddles. Yet people pay hundreds of dollars for those things. Why? Why not just put a Gibson bridge on and notch the saddles for correct radius? Or better yet, a roller Gibson bridge.

I went another route with my Mustang, which was to fix the bridge in place with new sleeves and install Kahler roller saddles in it. I suspect this is what Leo would have done if he weren't always searching for the cheapest solution. People talk about the tone being changed and all that but whatever--my bridge is individually adjustable for height and intonation at each saddle and never binds up. This is what I consider the best overall option!

Last edited: Feb 16, 2019 15:24:36

If your strings are too high with bridge all the way down, then you need to shim the neck. Common practice with offsets.

Good luck,
Ran

The Scimitars

Yeah, I'll be interested in trying-out this new Staytrem bridge when arrives, simply because it does appear to dodge some of the Mastery shortcomings, but even at that, I still remain a tad skeptical on the deal. And here's why . . .

The Staytrem offers those offset intonation screws, which is awesome and should help to minimize or reduce pinging from strings striking anything other than string slots, and it certainly appears to resolve the string-skip issue by having deeper string-slots like the Mustang bridge, but when I've tried them previously, those single, deeper Mustang-style string-slots also seemed to sap some of the cherished Jaguar brightness and tone that are there with bells-on when using the OEM Jag bridge.

Oh well! It could just be my aging ears, but I guess I'll see when the Staytrem gets here. If nothing else, I should be be able to sell the Staytrem if it doesn't work out for me in the end.

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

kick_the_reverb wrote:

If your strings are too high with bridge all the way down, then you need to shim the neck. Common practice with offsets.

Good luck,
Ran

Thanks Ran!

Yeah, I've certainly considered this as a possibility, but to be honest, its already been shimmed by a fair a bit (maybe 1/32"-1/16"). If I had to shim it much further (say 1/8"), there would be a clear and visible gap between the heel and the neck butt itself (that's how much it would probably require), and although that may in-fact be necessary in the end, it does trouble me. In fact, it has me wanting to post another thread, simply to ask other factory or properly setup '62 AVRI owners, just how far the top of their frets sit (in mm) above the top of the guitar or the floor of the heel. That little tidbit would literally be "priceless" information to me.

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

Dit anyone ever try these out with a vintage jaguar bridge?
http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/string-saver/product-detail/ps-8108-00-string-saver-original-jaguar-jazzmaster-mustang-barrel-saddles

It would mean keeping the bridhe and just replacing the saddles. But my suspicion is that these effectively transform your Jaguar bridge into a mustang bridge with less friction (and probably have similar effect on tone)

I was originally going to go the staytrem route for my Squier VM Jaguar, but it turns out my version has a 12" fretboard radius and the staytrem is only available for 7.25" and 9.5"

Rivulus wrote:

Dit anyone ever try these out with a vintage jaguar bridge?
http://www.graphtech.com/products/brands/string-saver/product-detail/ps-8108-00-string-saver-original-jaguar-jazzmaster-mustang-barrel-saddles

It would mean keeping the bridhe and just replacing the saddles. But my suspicion is that these effectively transform your Jaguar bridge into a mustang bridge with less friction (and probably have similar effect on tone)

I was originally going to go the staytrem route for my Squier VM Jaguar, but it turns out my version has a 12" fretboard radius and the staytrem is only available for 7.25" and 9.5"

Thanks Rivulus!

Yeah, I think those Graphtek saddles could prove to be a meaningful upgrade for guys who are using the stock Mustang bridge, because they offer the deeper, single string-slots like the Mustang saddles, while also offering the individual string height adjustments, which the Mustang lacks. But on the down side, they also have their intonation screws located dead-center of the string-slots just like the Mustang saddles.

I guess I decided to try the Staytrem, which also has the single Mustang-style slots, because at least in theory, the 'fixed' 7.25" radius of the Staytrem should eliminate the need for those individual string height adjustments and the rattles that are often produced by the associated Allen screws.

But nevertheless, thanks for posting this, because I wasn't previously aware of the Graphtek's, and who knows? Depending on what happens with the Staytrem, they could very well become a useful option.

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

Last edited: Feb 17, 2019 11:26:23

I think someone in this forum reported a while ago that he tried Graphtek saddles and that it robbed his tone. Wait, it's even on their website! :
On first listen, some people believe that the top end has gone away. All that is missing is the 2KHz spike;
I'd say, that's an important spike!

I have Graphtek nut on my Squier Bass VI, which surely is an upgrade over the original scummy plastic. But it's a different story.

OTOH, the Mastery bridge apparently also gets rid of some errand harmonics, but personally I like it (on the Jag, no so much on the Jazzmaster). It does change the vibrato action, again, a matter of taste.
Many people seem to like the StayTrem, keep us posted.

Last edited: Feb 17, 2019 11:54:34

Ariel wrote:

I think someone in this forum reported a while ago that he tried Graphtek saddles and that it robbed his tone. Wait, it's even on their website! :
On first listen, some people believe that the top end has gone away. All that is missing is the 2KHz spike;
I'd say, that's an important spike!

I have Graphtek nut on my Squier Bass VI, which surely is an upgrade over the original scummy plastic. But it's a different story.

OTOH, the Mastery bridge apparently also gets rid of some errand harmonics, but personally I like it (on the Jag, no so much on the Jazzmaster). It does change the vibrato action, again, a matter of taste.
Many people seem to like the StayTrem, keep us posted.

Yup. This 'tone suck' phenomenon is the primary reason that I remain skeptical, even of the Staytrem. There doesn't seem to be any real love out there for the Mustang bridge or its saddles (due to reported tone suck), yet there appears to be plenty of love for the Staytrem, which uses saddles that are essentially the same design as the Mustang. So that's some rather conflicting information.

I really want to get this thing dialed-in here soon (because I sorely miss playing it), and I paid dearly for the Staytrem because of it (hard to find one here in the U.S. anymore), but I will definitely keep everyone posted on it, once its been installed and evaluated.

Needless to say, I'm sure hoping it works. Otherwise, I'm probably looking at having to shim the neck further, which is going to leave it sitting awfully high in the neck pocket. The only other alternative, and its a radical one, would be to carefully, flatly and evenly grind down the very bottom surface of each bridge post on the stock (OEM) Jag bridge, but that would further reduce the string break angle, perhaps causing even more problems with strings striking the rear of the bridge frame.

Bottom line? Jaguar bridges SUCK!! But then, you guys all knew that already!

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

Last edited: Feb 17, 2019 12:58:11

Just found this on youtube. It is a jazzmaster and not realy an A/B comparison but maybe of interest..
https://youtu.be/qm43n13K1CQ

(Edit)
And some bridge comparisons
https://youtu.be/ZwcwAxggoWg

Last edited: Feb 17, 2019 15:05:58

Rivulus wrote:

Just found this on youtube. It is a jazzmaster and not realy an A/B comparison but maybe of interest..
https://youtu.be/qm43n13K1CQ

(Edit)
And some bridge comparisons
https://youtu.be/ZwcwAxggoWg

Cool! As we all know, its pretty tough to tell any subtle audio details from a video like this one, and unfortunately, he's playing much of the video with far too much distortion on the first video to really know for sure, but despite being non-metallic in nature, the GT Tusq's don't appear to have sapped much of the top end (i.e., they still sound fairly bright), and that's key with any such saddle design.

Anyway, thanks again for your posts.

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

Last edited: Feb 17, 2019 15:28:37

Thought I'd take a moment here to update this thread, as previously promised.

I just now received the 7.25" radius Staytrem bridge for my '62 AVRI Jag, and I hope to install it here over this coming weekend, so I'll be posting results again afterwards. As discussed previously, I don't know if it'll end-up sapping some of the classic Jaguar tone or not, but I'll say this much...its a MAJOR step up from the stock (OEM) bridge in terms of material quality, engineering and design. Its much-much heavier in weight, and much more precision in its overall design.

The question is ... will those heavier-gauge, single-slotted, fixed-elevation Mustang-style saddles cause an overall loss in the classic, chimey Jaguar tone? And I gotta admit, I'm skeptical at this point.

Anyway, stay tuned!

"Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit them with it." - Boris the Blade

You might want to look into this bridge. It may help the issues you're having.
http://jlguitars.eu/shop/index.php?id_product=75&id_product_attribute=0&rewrite=electrum-offset-bridge-jazzmasterjaguar&controller=product&id_lang=4

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