Establish positive norms right away and make sure everybody is good with them. This includes being polite, substance abuse, sick calls, how we go about openly discussing the music or projects etc. Try to maximize positive behaviors and not allow a lot of breathing room for negative behaviors. Be VERY above board about business dealings. It breeds trust and similar behaviors - which breeds more of the same. Always test and verify your perceptions and approaches with others because, the number one killer of bands is the clueless guy who merely thinks he's in charge. Unless you're Beyonce and can afford to pay everybody to do as you say, you best say things in a way that makes everybody want to show up and be part of the soup. And try to play some baddass tunes!

mj
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Do not attempt to adjust your TV set.
https://www.facebook.com/Bass-VI-Explorers-Club-179437279151035/
https://www.facebook.com/Lost-Planet-Shamen-366987463657230/

Last edited: Jan 19, 2017 22:33:14

montereyjack66 wrote:

Establish positive norms right away and make sure everybody is good with them. This includes being polite, substance abuse, sick calls, how we go about openly discussing the music or projects etc. Try to maximize positive behaviors and not allow a lot of breathing room for negative behaviors. Be VERY above board about business dealings. It breeds trust and similar behaviors - which breeds more of the same. Always test and verify your perceptions and approaches with others because, the number one killer of bands is the clueless guy who merely thinks he's in charge. Unless you're Beyonce and can afford to pay everybody to do as you say, you best say things in a way that makes everybody want to show up and be part of the soup. And try to play some baddass tunes!

True points. I have ended up as the one because I am motivated and organized. But I always aim to make it fun and open for input. But I guess every group has a leader to tun it.

If I was asked to join a group it would be great. I'd be happy to be a member. But anything like that has fallen apart due to poor organizing...

Clarry wrote:

Get a "Diary of Rock" and get everyone to put their holidays and dates they can't make in it. Saves a lot of hassle when organising rehearsals and gigs.

Try and get a solid rehearsal day. We've been doing it for 5 years every Thursday (except August and Christmas).

Great suggestion Clarry..Do you have a bsnd leader as such? What is your band? Anything online?

philjudd wrote:

Clarry wrote:

Get a "Diary of Rock" and get everyone to put their holidays and dates they can't make in it. Saves a lot of hassle when organising rehearsals and gigs.

Try and get a solid rehearsal day. We've been doing it for 5 years every Thursday (except August and Christmas).

Great suggestion Clarry..Do you have a bsnd leader as such? What is your band? Anything online?

Not particularly. There's 5 of us so when we vote on songs we never have a split vote. All of us try and get gigs. We all admit when we may have been a bit lazy and not learnt something. During rehearsals we've learnt to be self-critical, but also suggest and ask what each of us can do more of.

I become logistical boss at gigs. Much easier to have one person telling the others to not bring equipment to the stage until drums, then PA and monitors and mics are set up. I also take responsibility for sound because for once I read the manual and loads of online advice!

We're not an instro band, but we have a few old demos on our website. We need to do some more as we've progressed since then.

The DB5s

In this area there are not a lot of players, especially if your doing something creative as opposed to commercial. While it's great to have every body on the same page here we live with what we've got as frequently there is no alternative. Usually there is no declared "leader", but that role is handled by one or two people who do what needs to be done. You will always be "herding cats" at some point, creative people tend not to be good at marching in lock step. The real problem for all the bands here is gigs are scarce and it's hard to keep people on board when your next gig is a month away.

Great thoughts, Agent Surfcat.

I also feel that there are the bands which one person runs, and then the more democratic bands. I've done both, I find the latter way more fun, but a harder situation to fall into/create. When I was young, in & just out of college, I played in a (IMHO) great band, we were all contributing etc, but were so very democratic we never got anything done. We once played a pretty big opening gig for someone or other, hung out all night, left and realized no one had even talked to the manager about money.

My current band I made to be an easy to run affair and there's no question the buck stops with me. we don't really rehearse except for really big gigs, I've just got really pro players and they read charts onstage. Not ideal, but better than not playing! and this current lineup has solidified (after years of rotating bass players) and people are actually getting invested. We recorded an ep etc, so things are moving along.

Being clear about expectations, and respectful goes a long long way, I think.

Matt Heaton & the Electric Heaters
"Dick Dale meets Dennis Lehane"
http://www.heatonsurf.com

Nice suggestions Matt and Las B.

Surfcat

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Surf, the most dangerous of all musical genres...

Band experiences can have their ups and downs...communication and clarity of objectives will help build the group and weather the storms or at least quickly guide people to their decisions about how to fix and improve things. I am a firm believer that benign dictatorships with a democratic, supportive base gets stuff done quickly.

If you have a couple of people generating the ideas and plans and with everyone's agreement everyone contributes to the end results, people will feel involved and invest themselves. And if they do not, it is time to remedy the situation.

If there are people not contributing to the success and they become liabilities because they do not prepare, perform, communicate etc to the bar set by the group, they should be let go. But the goals of every group are different...the problems start when anyone is not in sync with those goals.
Not everyone can do everything effectively, so recognizing each person's abilities and strengths is important.

Lorne
The Surf Shakers: https://www.facebook.com/TheSurfShakers
Vancouver BC Canada

Last edited: Jan 22, 2017 15:34:40

Las_Barracudas wrote:

In my humble opinion if you can make it a "team" effort that's the way to go. Based on my experiences though that rarely happens, so somebody will have to be the defacto leader. I'm a way better guitarist / songwriter than band leader, and doing essentially all of the booking & promo really became a drag for me, but if you hope to have any success at all you have to have a point man. If you're in a band that has multiple members willing to promote then consider yourself very lucky and do everything possible to foster this dynamic.

With that said, here's a few things I learned over the years both pro / con.

• General vision - Have a general vision of what your format will be and make sure everybody is on the same page.
• Gig pay - Keep all band dealings and negotiations open and completely above board. Agreeing to minimum pay rates prior to booking is always a good policy. I've always believed in an equal cut for everybody.
• Band practice - Establish a routine practice time that works for everybody and stick to it. Once a week is reasonable imo. If folks can't adhere to that they probably don't need to be in a serious project. Personally I believe in home practice when trying to learn new material and group practice to smooth it out and work on dynamics. The one guy or gal that shows up to practice cold is always a boat anchor imo.
• Gig territory - Clearly define how far folks are willing to travel for a gig. Have a meeting regarding any other offers beyond agreed upon territory.
• Equipment needs - Have an understanding of the band's gear needs and share in the expense. Expecting one member to provide all the equipment beyond their personal rig is unfair financially and logistically. If somebody wants to do it then problem solved.
• Promo / booking - Everybody "should" share in this duty, but realistically some members just won't do this especially if you're in a band that's comprised of mostly introverts. If they just won't help with this then try to come up with something else they can do well.
• Google calendar - These work great for scheduling. Create a shared calendar and have all the members highlight any dates that they can't do prior to booking any gigs.
• Non-practice meetings - I think this is a productive way to discuss issues and iron out any wrinkles or just discuss new ideas. Try to make it an enjoyable thing.
• Keep things democratic! - Voting on new material, unusual gig offers, equipment needs, etc,, is the way to go. If the vote is a tie then it's probably best to table the issue or move on to something you can agree on.
• Be professional and polite at all times.
• Code of conduct - Have a general understanding of what's acceptable behavior for the group. This could cover many things; you'll have to decide on what works for your band.
• When things go south! - Have a plan to deal with the occasional meltdown or personality friction. How you deal with or react to a blowup could possibly make or break the group. We all hope that everybody will behave politely and rationally but unfortunately that doesn't always happen. If you can call a time-out or cooling off period, often times things can be rationally discussed and worked out at a later date.
• Identify individual strengths - Try to figure out who is best at what and capitalize on that. If a member just can't or won't help with the booking then perhaps they're good at something else like making playbills or managing a social media band page, etc..

Best of luck and strive to make the project as fun as possible.

Thanks Las... Great suggestions...

The below is brilliant, so I'm including it in total after my thoughts.

I pretty much agree with all that, except the main problem I've had is that, this is a somewhat Utopian situation - one that's unlikely to exist in the real world.

So my opinion is this:

A successful band must be run like a successful business. That means you need a CEO (the band leader) and the "hired help" (the musicians).

The only real way to make a band work is with financial backing.

If you don't have a promoter, then it's on you.

So the absolute best route is this:

1. Buy PA and Lights.
2. Buy vehicle in which to haul said PA and Lights.
3. Hire musicians, FOH engineer, and roadies. That means pay them.

You run the band, you book the band (or work with an agent) and you cover all the expenses. Pay the musicians. If you are able to book gigs that make extra money, you keep the profit. If not, you eat it.

But you're never going to get great players to form a great band unless you're able to pay for the best - you get what you pay for.

And, as soon as one person shows up to rehearsal without having worked on the songs, you fire them and hire someone else. If you're paying people, players will be lining up fighting for a spot.

You can run it like Americs, where you give people a false sense that they actually have a say in things, then do what you want.

But a real democracy rarely works because you've always got some people with no head for business whatsoever.

So yes, IF you can make a team effort as Las Barracudas says, that's the best of all possible worlds. But it's REALLY REALLY HARD to find 4 or 5 people who are REALLY on the same page.

If you want to have a band as a hobby, or "for fun", none of this really matters. And some people are only in it for that, so you do have to be absolutely clear about your vision, expectations, and so on.

And that typically can't be done democratically. SOMEONE needs to be the leader.

I'm sorry, but it was Jon Bon Jovi. Ritchie Sambora helped, and co-wrote, so they were a "songwriting team", but it was Jon Bon Jovi who was selling albums - his face, his voice, his look, etc. No one cared who Alec John Such or any of the other members were. And you see that time and time again in bands.

Word of warning though - if you are the band leader, not only are you responsible for everything, but everything bad that happens is also going to be your fault!

It's a thankless job but if you put a good crew together, you can become quite successful with it.

Las_Barracudas wrote:

In my humble opinion if you can make it a "team" effort that's the way to go. Based on my experiences though that rarely happens, so somebody will have to be the defacto leader. I'm a way better guitarist / songwriter than band leader, and doing essentially all of the booking & promo really became a drag for me, but if you hope to have any success at all you have to have a point man. If you're in a band that has multiple members willing to promote then consider yourself very lucky and do everything possible to foster this dynamic.

With that said, here's a few things I learned over the years both pro / con.

• General vision - Have a general vision of what your format will be and make sure everybody is on the same page.
• Gig pay - Keep all band dealings and negotiations open and completely above board. Agreeing to minimum pay rates prior to booking is always a good policy. I've always believed in an equal cut for everybody.
• Band practice - Establish a routine practice time that works for everybody and stick to it. Once a week is reasonable imo. If folks can't adhere to that they probably don't need to be in a serious project. Personally I believe in home practice when trying to learn new material and group practice to smooth it out and work on dynamics. The one guy or gal that shows up to practice cold is always a boat anchor imo.
• Gig territory - Clearly define how far folks are willing to travel for a gig. Have a meeting regarding any other offers beyond agreed upon territory.
• Equipment needs - Have an understanding of the band's gear needs and share in the expense. Expecting one member to provide all the equipment beyond their personal rig is unfair financially and logistically. If somebody wants to do it then problem solved.
• Promo / booking - Everybody "should" share in this duty, but realistically some members just won't do this especially if you're in a band that's comprised of mostly introverts. If they just won't help with this then try to come up with something else they can do well.
• Google calendar - These work great for scheduling. Create a shared calendar and have all the members highlight any dates that they can't do prior to booking any gigs.
• Non-practice meetings - I think this is a productive way to discuss issues and iron out any wrinkles or just discuss new ideas. Try to make it an enjoyable thing.
• Keep things democratic! - Voting on new material, unusual gig offers, equipment needs, etc,, is the way to go. If the vote is a tie then it's probably best to table the issue or move on to something you can agree on.
• Be professional and polite at all times.
• Code of conduct - Have a general understanding of what's acceptable behavior for the group. This could cover many things; you'll have to decide on what works for your band.
• When things go south! - Have a plan to deal with the occasional meltdown or personality friction. How you deal with or react to a blowup could possibly make or break the group. We all hope that everybody will behave politely and rationally but unfortunately that doesn't always happen. If you can call a time-out or cooling off period, often times things can be rationally discussed and worked out at a later date.
• Identify individual strengths - Try to figure out who is best at what and capitalize on that. If a member just can't or won't help with the booking then perhaps they're good at something else like making playbills or managing a social media band page, etc..

Best of luck and strive to make the project as fun as possible.