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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Guitar Wiring Help Please!

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I'm in the midst of changing pickups of my other guitar, it originally had cheap Chinese overwound ceramic types in H/S/S format but this was unsuitable for my playing style. Replacements are two Japanese Jaguar pups and a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P90 bridge. All used single coils with two wires a piece and have fairly good SG101 reviews, I'm hoping they'll do the trick.

The Guitar had three controls:
Shadow SH 124-500 Kill Pot with A500k resistance (push/push)
Alpha Pot Push/Pull A500k (tone)
JA three way switch (As found on Asian Epiphone Les Paul's etc.

Previous owner smashed the bottom of the Shadow pot off Argh my replacement is a Alpha B500k. I assume it was done because of an internet rumour - Shadow push/push sucks tone... it was expensive item too!

Previous owner also unsuccessfully re-wired some of which was a very complex Humbucker splitting type loom. So I've decided to de-solder all parts and start from scratch. No schematic exists for this model that I can find.

I'd like a simple three way switching for the individual pickups with neck/bridge together by pulling up the push/pull tone control. I wouldn't expect anyone to draw out a schematic but if you can think of a guitar with this kind of configuration I'd be grateful because I can't find a thing as yet. I'd be grateful of any comment! Smile

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Last edited: Aug 02, 2014 11:14:56

go at seymour duncan site and search the wiring you need ,maybe you need to cross 2 ,but there is all
if you have to much trouble ,ask if i can help you i will do

but you can't have the middle pickup alone with your toggle

Last edited: Aug 02, 2014 13:24:48

Hi Ludobag. Thanks for your suggestion, yes I have already been to Seymour Duncan site - no luck because my guitar is cross between Gibson and Fender electrics.

I have looked hard - so I see wiring diagrams when I shut my eyes at night! Smile

So my toggle switch is not good, do I need one with 4 contacts ?

crumble wrote:

A three way switch (As found on Asian Epiphone Les Paul's etc.

[...]

I'd like a simple three way switching for the individual pickups with neck/bridge together by pulling up the push/pull tone control. I wouldn't expect anyone to draw out a schematic but if you can think of a guitar with this kind of configuration I'd be grateful because I can't find a thing as yet. I'd be grateful of any comment! Smile

I'm afraid that's not possible with a Les Paul/Jazzmaster style toggle. The middle position on these can only be used to turn on two pickups at once, in series or in parallel. The closest you could get with what you currently have is use the toggle to select, say, bridge or neck or both, and then use the push-pull to alternate between this and middle pup only. You would get essentially all the options you need, but through a different switching routine that is perhaps not as convenient as the one you suggested.

If you want one switch to select any of the 3 single coils, and the push-pull to turn on both neck and bridge, you'll have to use a vintage Strat style 3 position blade selector instead of the toggle. But then you might as well get a regular 5 position Strat style switch to have all possible pickup combinations available.

P.S. I can try to draw a schematic if you need one, but be warned I'm not very good with guitar wiring.

EDITED several times because I recognized the Monkey Lord (that's the guitar's name Smile ) so I had to check the specs to make sure what the original switching system is capable of. Turns out that IS a SPDT, not a SP3T, so my initial comments still apply.

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

Last edited: Aug 02, 2014 17:39:58

LeeVanCleef wrote:

The closest you could get with what you currently have is use the toggle to select, say, bridge or neck or both, and then use the push-pull to alternate between this and middle pup only.

That would be absolutely fine.

If you want one switch to select any of the 3 single coils, and the push-pull to turn on both neck and bridge, you'll have to use a vintage Strat style 3 position blade selector instead of the toggle.

I don't think I can do that without a re-paint - not good but understood!

P.S. I can try to draw a schematic if you need one, but be warned I'm not very good with guitar wiring.

That would be splendid. BTW one my first thoughts when starting out on this mission was Dave Wronski's Telecaster wiring mod for 2 pickups. I prefer the idea of 2 pickups but the choices are router/re-spray or specially made pickguard, in the end it's easier to install a middle pup.

Look this http://www.1728.org/guitar3.htm or first page http://www.1728.org/guitar.htm

Last edited: Aug 02, 2014 15:40:43

OK, here's my attempt.

image

All black wires (7) indicate a ground connection and must be connected together, preferably at a common point like the casing of one of the pots (star ground).

Pots & switches are represented as seen from below (I hope I didn't get the connections backwards, I sometimes get things mixed up at this stage).

Please note that one of the lugs of the tone pot is left unconnected (the one on the left on my schem), and one side of the push-pull DPDT switch is not used at all.

Also, you can use the push-pull as the tone pot if you prefer — in fact, that would make sense as you want to use an A pot for volume. This is very easily done since both pots are connected to the middle connector of the push-pull. On the above schem, move the switch part of the push-pull under the tone pot, and just remember to wire it to the center lug this time, not the left lug.

So here's what you should get if I didn't make any mistakes:
With the push-pull disengaged, the toggle will give you bridge/bridge+neck parallel/neck.
Engaging the push-pull will deactivate the toggle and thus the bridge and neck pups, activating the middle pup only.
Both the volume and tone pots are wired as master controls and will work on any pickup activated.

Hope it works image

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

Last edited: Aug 02, 2014 18:11:49

Wow! I mean WOW! that's a great easy to read wiring diagram, thank you so much! If all goes well I'll try this tomorrow (Sunday).

Only problem I can foresee is the potentiometer types. This is something that I always find confusing... A & B pots. It is my understanding that the Europeans code their pots differently to Americans BUT Alpha pots (which I am using)tend to follow the American standard.

The ML-1 came with a push/pull tone pot marked A500K (A = Audio) and already has a 2A233J Capacitor soldered from pot terminal 1 to earth then to terminal 7 of the push/pull.

The volume pot replacement I bought is a B500K. I don't mind if the push/pull is in the volume or tone position but I'd like to get the A-B Lin or Log side of things the right way around. The original Shadow volume pot was a A500K but the place I bought the replacement stated Fender always uses B type (Lin) for volume ... it's very confusing!

Don't thank me, thank DIY Layout Creator, a cool freeware program that allows you to draw schematics and circuit layouts easily. Well, "easily" is perhaps a slight overstatement since it has a few pesky bugs... But it's still a great tool.

As for the pots, you'll find that in the guitar world the American standard (A=audio/log, B=lin) is used unanimously.

There is much debate about A vs B pots for both tone and volume. The audio/log taper is what matches best the way the human ear perceives variations in volume. Therefore many guitar players prefer A for both, which is the standard configuration on Strats, Teles and Jaguars, but feel the tone control is less crucial, and so can live with a B in that position. I'm with them, I have a 10 band eq pedal for subtle tone adjustments, so I use the vol pot much more than the tone pot.

Others swear by the B-for-volume, A-for-tone formula, which is what you'll find on a stock Jazzmaster. The rhythm circuit, interestingly enough, uses 2 B pots.

I think the best way to go about this is to use whatever you think is best, and if it doesn't work for you just swap the pots around.

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

Last edited: Aug 02, 2014 20:19:42

LeeVanCleef wrote:

I think the best way to go about this is to use whatever you think is best, and if it doesn't work for you just swap the pots around.

You're right and the Alpha brand is so cheap also. Great French crew helping me out so far! Cheers! Just noticed your Monkey Lord comment Smile

crumble wrote:

Just noticed your Monkey Lord comment Smile

Yup, I thought the guitar looked familiar (or, perhaps more accurately, unfamiliar in a surf context Wink ) and then remembered you posting about it. I had to go back and edit my comment again to mention it was the guitar's name, lest other members thought I was referring to something like this:

image

Laughing

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

MASTER!! Worship

image

image

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

Ha! great pictures!

Gosh it's taken me the best part of a day to wire my guitar, I can't imagine how they wire them in the factory at any speed (ML-1 is hatch at the back type) I have finger burns and blisters galore!

Your wiring diagram is a very good attempt and I really appreciate getting me this far LeeVan. A couple of things didn't turnout as expected though. The volume control is reverse action and middle pickup position(bridge and neck together) is less than half volume and sounds really strange. I'm absolutely knackered at the moment but I'll check my work tomorrow afternoon.

Best thing is the Jaguar pickups sound amazing - really pleased about this. The is Phat Cat is a bit over the top, it will be extracted at the first opportunity me thinks.

image

image

Last edited: Aug 04, 2014 19:05:16

crumble wrote:

A couple of things didn't turnout as expected though. The volume is reverse action and middle pickup position(bridge and neck together) is less than half volume and sounds really strange.

Sounds like the neck & bridge pickups are mounted out of phase. Reversing the connections for one of them should do the trick.

As for the volume pot, I double checked and I'm pretty sure my diagram is correct. Note that the pots are represented as seen from below, i.e. with the bottom metal casing facing you (not the shaft), as is standard, which can look a bit confusing with push-pull pots. Here are some more detailed diagrams, with a different view for clarity.

image image

Hope this helps

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

I'm using the push/pull as volume control and yes It does look like I have the orientation wrong, the diagram with numbered points helps a lot thanks. To further extoll the virtues of your design Smile it is hum free!

The original Jaguar pickup covers are a very clever design in that they hold the claw in exact position. The underside of the claw has six magnet avoidance holes but without the pickup cover the claw is allowed to slop around and touch the magnets. The solution was to drill a center hole in the claw and offer an aluminium lug through both claw and ready made bobbin hole. It sounds like a crazy thing to do but the Jaguar pups are wider, longer and taller than the standard Strat size but a Strat cover aligns with both fitting screw holes and pole placement (52mm). By using Strat covers I can get away with less wood routing.

But murphy's law, as I was measuring and scheming all the wires literally fell off the bobbins and I didn't note the positions - neck black/white - bridge black/yellow. I'm assuming the both blacks earth on the metal claw but I can't find a photo to confirm this as yet.

The guitar itself is a bit of a plain jane of which I'm sure no one is much interested here on the surf forum. Chapman likes to use various tone woods with as little paint or lacquer as possible. With Mahogany body my ML-1 weighs in at a heavy 9 pounds! It is acoustically twice as loud as my Stratocaster, the strings seem ultra free to oscillate, strong easy play neck with dual action truss rod. The list goes on but the sum of it's parts doesn't particularly make it sound like a Stratocaster even though it's based on a similar design, I wouldn't say the ML-1 is overly inferior though it is just different.

I was curiously half expecting the Jag pickups to sound rather ordinary in the ML-1 but to my surprise they aren't dissimilar to the sound of a real jaguar. I think goes to prove what a remarkable design jaguar pickups are.

crumble wrote:

I'm assuming the both blacks earth on the metal claw but I can't find a photo to confirm this as yet.

Yes, that's correct.

Old punks never die... They just become surf rockers.

LeeVanCleef wrote:

crumble wrote:

I'm assuming the both blacks earth on the metal claw but I can't find a photo to confirm this as yet.

Yes, that's correct.

Thanks it's a relief to know the pickup wires are all correct, the P90 is braded steel earth type so no confusion there.

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