BeachBumScott
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 352
The Ranch, CO
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 11:54 AM
My 2 cents... Spaghetti Western music is not a sub genre of Surf music.
Just because it is a form of instrumental music does not make it Surf.
Is it because "Surf Bands" have tried to cover/adapt Morricone orchestration into smaller guitar,bass & drum bands that it has been lumped in?
Morricone and the similar composers are in a category of there own.
It does have to do with the orchestration that leads to the feel of the piece.
They are trying to tell a story with in their music... if you sit down and not just listen to the score but watch the movie that it is backing the music not just follows the story line but is an integral part of it.
Moving on...
Hot rod vs Surf...
The Surfites "Thou Shalt Drag" hot rod or surf?
The title says hot rod but if you went to any greaser/hot rod gathering the folks there would tend to disagree I would think.
It has to do with preconceived notions...
Again my 2 pennies I would tend to pull Hot Rod out of the "Surf Genre". That is because Hot Rod and Rockabilly tend to go hand in hand.
Now Surf & HR/Rockabilly do coexist (just take a look at Viva Las Vegas) the flavors of the 2 styles of music are totally different.
But then again I guess we could also lump White Zombie's song Black Sunshine into Hot Rod music also...
— "Maybe there aren't any surf bands; there's only surf music?" Tuck
Last edited: Jan 17, 2013 11:56:34
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BeachBumScott
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 352
The Ranch, CO
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 12:00 PM
Surf music or Hot Rod????
— "Maybe there aren't any surf bands; there's only surf music?" Tuck
Last edited: Jan 17, 2013 12:00:25
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 12:55 PM
BeachBumScott wrote:
My 2 cents... Spaghetti Western music is not a sub genre of Surf music.
Of course that's absolutely true (the "but..." follows below). Just as John Barry with his James Bond music, Morricone was incorporating a bit of the contemporary 'pop' sound into his largely orchestral (and I think we'd all agree, highly original and unique) scores. Of course, in the early to mid '60s Europe, a big part of the pop sound was the Shadows and r&r instros in general, so that's how the twangy guitar found its way into those scores. With Morricone it was probably also the fact that the 'Western' sound was becoming largely associated with twangy guitar at that time, both due to the Bakersfield country sound, but also due to the Shadows doing songs like Apache, as well as their first, self-titled EP being Western themed (featuring Mustang, Shane, Shotgun, and Giant). They of course continued to mine that Western vein with The Savage, Peace Pipe, Wonderful Land, Geronimo, etc. And then there were Joe Meek's the Outlaws whose entire shtick was twangy Western-themed instrumentals, and who Meek intended to be his most direct competition to the Shadows. There were many other bands doing things like that around western (ha!) Europe. So, it's really not surprising that if Morricone had his ear to the ground he would have incorporated that sound into what were after all not terribly sophisticated movies, intended to mostly appeal to young men - and guess what THEY mostly listened to?? Not the wimpy Beatles - they listened to the Shads! I'm sure it was a completely commercial decision on part of Morricone and quite possibly Sergio Leone, who may have suggested that to Morricone )(all of these are possible reasons why Morricone refuses to talk about all that music).
Anyway, by today there have been so many surf bands and surf songs greatly influenced by some elements of Morricone's spaghetti-western soundtracks that I think it's perfectly acceptable to actually talk about spaghetti-western surf. Of course it's not the same thing as Morricone - but it's undoubtedly influenced by him, whether in the atmosphere or the particular tonalities or chord progressions or instrumentation, etc... So, yes, I firmly believe that it's OK to talk about spaghetti western surf music by this point. The amazing comp "For a Few Guitars More" proves that beyond the shadow of a doubt, anyway. I personally love to hear surf bands incorporate some of those elements, so I hope that continues, despite the few naysayers here!
— Ivan
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Kawentzmann
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1058
Berlin, Germany
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 02:39 PM
Yes! I love paintings using many colors, too. And an impressionist does that. However, putting more red in an impressionist painting doesn’t make it an example of expressionism - or expressive-impressionism, or whatever clash of descriptions is at hand.
They always used to do it and the label used to be sufficient. Creating new subcategories comes with trying to be part of a smaller in-group or just getting hits on alternative search terms on the internet.
— The Exotic Guitar of Kahuna Kawentzmann
You can get the boy out of the Keynes era, but you can’t get the Keynes era out of the boy.
Last edited: Jan 17, 2013 14:41:41
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BeachBumScott
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 352
The Ranch, CO
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 03:18 PM
Ahh...
To quote Ivan "spaghetti western surf music"...
There in lies the difference I didn't realize we were discussing the sub genre of the sub genre. 
So it must be like chocolate to rocky road you know the same thing just with some differences.
— "Maybe there aren't any surf bands; there's only surf music?" Tuck
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IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10331
southern Michigan
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 03:29 PM
Well, unlike some, I really have no problem with labels. When you're writing about music - which is very difficult, and explains why most mainstream 'music' critics focus primarily on the lyrics, as completely ridiculous as that is - it's helpful to use labels since it gives some reference to the reader. Anyway, it's not really a subgenre - if a surf band has one or two songs that incorporate some spaghetti western influences, that doesn't mean that they play 'spaghetti western surf' now - it's just a way to describe that particular song(s).
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
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pavlovsdog
Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 288
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 04:17 PM
This whole resurgence in the topic of spaghetti western inspired me to buy the IFC Documentary.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OIOPQI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
It's been a while since I saw it (back in 07 or 08) but the one thing I remember is that some directors really resented the term spaghetti western and thought that it was disrespectful and others will more embracing of the term.
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Jan 17 2013 04:20 PM
It is disrespectful, undoubtedly. The boiled Italians down to eating spaghetti. It is a stereotype. They took it back though with the quality of their films. Their legacy will be remembered for a long time. The genre they emulated their settings from ended up looking to their films for clues. Westerns aren't really copied these days, but you see the Spaghetti Western style in movies that aren't remotely set in the West, or even on Earth.
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djangodeadman
Joined: Jan 25, 2007
Posts: 1566
Brighton UK
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Posted on Jan 18 2013 02:02 AM
IvanP wrote:
Well, unlike some, I really have no problem with labels. When you're writing about music - which is very difficult, and explains why most mainstream 'music' critics focus primarily on the lyrics, as completely ridiculous as that is - it's helpful to use labels since it gives some reference to the reader. Anyway, it's not really a subgenre - if a surf band has one or two songs that incorporate some spaghetti western influences, that doesn't mean that they play 'spaghetti western surf' now - it's just a way to describe that particular song(s).
Labels CAN be very useful when describing to people what a band sounds like. Most people I speak to still look at me blankly when I mention surf music (or they think I'm talking about the Beach Boys), but if I say, "Have you seen Pulp Fiction?" or (being in the UK), "You've heard the Shadows?" or, "Spaghetti Western" they may start to know what I'm talking about. None of these things adequately describes the music my band makes (although each of them may describe an element of what we do), but they send people in the right direction.
And I don't really think we play surf music either, but again, for those in the know, it's a a useful label.
— Los Fantasticos
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 18 2013 07:13 AM
Thanks for the tip. I just ordered it from Netflix. Here's another film I found there.
Ennio Morricone: Arena Concerto
From their description of the film: World-renowned Italian composer Ennio Morricone -- best known for pioneering the sound of spaghetti Western soundtracks -- conducts the Roma Sinfonietta Orchestra in an evening of his own compositions in this memorable live concert filmed at the Arena di Verona. Selections include "Cinema Paradiso," "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly," "Once Upon a Time in the West," "A Fistful of Dynamite," "Battle of Algiers" and "Richard III."
"A Fistful of Dynamite"?
I'm really looking forward to this one. Very curious about his instrumentation and arrangements.
pavlovsdog wrote:
This whole resurgence in the topic of spaghetti western inspired me to buy the IFC Documentary.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OIOPQI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
It's been a while since I saw it (back in 07 or 08) but the one thing I remember is that some directors really resented the term spaghetti western and thought that it was disrespectful and others will more embracing of the term.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Jan 18, 2013 07:15:01
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seafoam_green
Joined: Jan 19, 2013
Posts: 17
Bali
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Posted on Jan 20 2013 02:56 AM
The Band named " Calexico " from the town called calexico in Arizona have some great Spaghetti western music.
— Green Rooms, Bombora's and Reverb
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25535
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Jul 18 2013 12:12 AM
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25535
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Jan 25 2014 06:19 PM
Tomorrow!
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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josheboy
Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 2365
Twin Cities, MN
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Posted on Jan 25 2014 06:51 PM
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25535
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Jan 26 2014 10:23 AM
Ready for Spaghetti?
Tune into NSSR at 9am pacific time
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 26 2014 10:24 AM
bigtikidude wrote:
Ready for Spaghetti?
Tune into NSSR at 9am pacific time
Already there. I hope NSSR offer this show as a comp!
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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ErnestHernandez
Joined: Jun 16, 2008
Posts: 592
The Alamo City, TX
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Posted on Jan 26 2014 10:31 AM
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VancouverSurf
Joined: Dec 16, 2012
Posts: 16
Vancouver
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Posted on Jan 26 2014 01:16 PM
Unfortunately, I had to miss this. If anyone could list some or all of the songs that were played, that would be much appreciated.
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toddr513
Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Posts: 245
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Posted on Jan 26 2014 08:56 PM
you guys should check out my band
reverbnation.com/jakelogan
we are currently recording a full length
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Jan 26 2014 10:04 PM
toddr513 wrote:
you guys should check out my band
reverbnation.com/jakelogan
we are currently recording a full length
Listening now. I like it. The scattered bluesy touches are cool. Giddy-up!
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
Last edited: Jan 26, 2014 22:04:38
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