artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on May 28 2015 12:24 PM
So after hearing Ivan speak so highly of the Atlantics, I was able to track down some recordings. I am really digging their use of delay. Can anyone clue me in on what I am hearing though - mix, repeats, delay lengths, etc? I'd like to try and dial in a similar setting on my Analogman Dual delay. My untrained ear is hearing longish delays in that 350-450ms arena... I think. Ha.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19190
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on May 28 2015 01:05 PM
You are hearing a tape echo unit. See this thread for the model used by the Atlantics.
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on May 28 2015 02:11 PM
I figured it was tape echo because there weren't any delay pedals back then. Ha. I am curious on guesstimates for emulating that sound with a modern delay pedal - especially in regards to time and repeats. Its hard to hear the repeats cleanly because they wash into the reverb.
Also, if anyone knows the settings that Martin Cilia uses on his DM-2 or DM-3, that would solve all the mysteries! HA. Thanks again!
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Last edited: May 28, 2015 14:52:07
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on May 28 2015 05:53 PM
artdecade wrote:
Also, if anyone knows the settings that Martin Cilia uses on his DM-2 or DM-3, that would solve all the mysteries! HA. Thanks again!
I'll ask him if he minds me posting a couple pics of his DM-2 he sent me awhile back when I asked that very question. He's got a couple of "go-to" settings that he uses in conjunction with his tank; one for rip-roaring stuff and another that's really "luxurious" - meanwhile I'll ask him if perhaps he could just stop in here (big time diff) and you can get it from the source.
He gets alot out of very little when he's travelling; give him a good amp, tank and a delay & things stay pretty neat.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on May 29 2015 06:49 AM
artdecade wrote:
Also, if anyone knows the settings that Martin Cilia uses on his DM-2 or DM-3, that would solve all the mysteries! HA. Thanks again!
Don't know if this solves all the mysteries for you but here are a couple settings when he was using a DM-2. I found that the settings on the DM-2 needed to be "translated" to my delay (old Arion) just a bit because of what Boss calls their knobs. So on the DM-2:
"Echo" = Arion Depth/ CarbonCopy Mix, i.e., wet/dry
"Intensity" = Arion Repeat/ CarbonCopy Regen.
"Repeat Rate" = Arion Delay/CarbonCopy Delay, i.e., individual intervals.
When used with a tank - his was at about 5 - 5 - 5 - these seem to work well if that's the specific sound you're after. The one on the right is a pretty luxurious sound and would've been used for something like "Point Danger" off the album "Revenge of the Surf Guitar." Still important just to use one's ear.
Love the time difference; during the middle of the night he sent me a pic of his simple "flying" pedal board which includes an FRV-1 and a DSD-2. (He was in the air headed to a gig in Brisbane.) I'd advised him of this thread & he also mentioned that when he gets time he'll drop by and engage here, so more to follow, from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on May 29 2015 09:09 AM
You are a champion. Thanks for the pics and putting in the good word with the man himself.
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on May 29 2015 10:02 AM
artdecade wrote:
You are a champion. Thanks for the pics and putting in the good word with the man himself.
No sweat, certainly no champion, other than a huge fan. As I'm sure others can attest better than I Martin's always been quite gracious with his input when asked. This should be interesting.
A (very) extended thought tacked on to a site wiki-idea that has floated a little bit... it would be interesting to see a short vid of Ivan or Martin or someone else who very much has a signature sound as to how they go about getting it, from a noodling guide track to EQ, effects, etc., and on to the finished thing. (not that they need more on their plate, probably...)
I still think one has to trust their ear for what works for them. More of a concept of what's trying to be accomplished sonically, rather than "this many milliseconds, that many repeats" (unless one is trying specifically to nail it, like for a tribute effort or something).
I'm just glad I don't have to endure the air-travel (one end to the other) that he does back & forth sometimes - Oz is big country. Not like driving over to Milwaukee. Uff-da!
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Surfersaurus
Joined: Feb 10, 2010
Posts: 352
Australia
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Posted on May 30 2015 02:31 AM
artdecade wrote:
I figured it was tape echo because there weren't any delay pedals back then. Ha. I am curious on guesstimates for emulating that sound with a modern delay pedal - especially in regards to time and repeats. Its hard to hear the repeats cleanly because they wash into the reverb.
Also, if anyone knows the settings that Martin Cilia uses on his DM-2 or DM-3, that would solve all the mysteries! HA. Thanks again!
Martin here - I think Wes has about covered this but The Atlantics in the 60s only used the Echolette and NO reverb on the guitars. It was Guitar - Echolette - Amp.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on May 30 2015 05:18 AM
guitar wrote:
Martin here - I think Wes has about covered this but The Atlantics in the 60s only used the Echolette and NO reverb on the guitars. It was Guitar - Echolette - Amp.
Martin, thanks for that reminder. I seem to recall a fairly lengthy interview vid (you, Jim, Peter sitting on stools) but can't find the link - and maybe it was Peter was quite clear that "bubbly" sound wasn't very well regarded a the time. Also, for Michael, if you're interested there was an extremely good interview done by Ivan Pongracic for Continental Magazine - had to be split into 2 parts, issues 21 & 22. You can get back issues here.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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Duceditor
Joined: Mar 09, 2014
Posts: 83
The Monadnocks, NH
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Posted on May 31 2015 11:02 AM
Interesting read. My old ears have me using very similar settings.
Back in the days my groups used tape echos because that was what was available. Built in reverb came along (my first amp with built in was Fender's first -- the 2-10, brown Tolex, version of Vibroverb. Used that on all the Abstract's mid-sixties recordings)), but I still used Echoplex and the like through early `68.
These days I get very similar sound with digital delay and either an FRV-1 or DigiTech Spring Tank. (Although I'm planing on getting a Surfy Bear following the rave reviews here!)
Oh, and we used the great built-in tremolo effects too. Both Fender's and Ampeg's. It was then viewed as simply integral to "the sound." Today, depending on the amp, that too is sometimes digital (not quite equal to the old ones but usefully close enough).
-don
http://picosong.com/9i9Y/
— Still rockin' after all these years!
Last edited: May 31, 2015 11:18:39
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4536
Wisconsin
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Posted on May 31 2015 01:00 PM
Tape, yeah. Had to laugh at myself yesterday; the Admiral was flipping through some TV channels & ran into that storage wars thing and these guys had bought contents of an abandoned unit - she yelled for me to come in the room 'cause they came up with a working Binson Echorec. Some people.... sheesh.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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artdecade
Joined: Aug 30, 2012
Posts: 399
Twangsville
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Posted on Jun 01 2015 12:53 PM
Thanks, everyone!!
— To Boldly go where no Tiki has gone before...
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