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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink NGD! ('59 AVRI Stratocaster)

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You guys are causing some irresistible GAS. Just sayin' SG101! Big Grin

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

IvanP wrote:

A question for those of you that own one of these new series Strats, whether a '56, '59 or '65: is your tremolo very stiff? (No jokes, please! Twisted Evil ) My '65 Strat's trem is by far the stiffest of all my Strats - too stiff. I have four springs in the back like with all my other Strats, but maybe the new springs are different? I wonder if swapping out the springs would fix this problem.

Any help would be appreciated!

I used the Fender forum and this thread to help me setup my American Standard Stratocaster which came to me with 3 black springs only. I'm using 10-46 gauge hex core strings which almost feel like 11-52 and tips the bridge at an unbearable angle and can't be fully adjusted at the spring claw.

My solution was to buy a set of Callaham chrome plated springs (Callaham has stated his springs are just a standard issue part) With 3 chrome springs the bridge pulled back flat to the body and I was able to adjust the spring claw screws to float the bridge a-ok. At this point the tremolo bar is much stiffer but I have yet to check the knife edge pivot posts.

On the Fender Forum there was much debate about spring strength so a clever guy made a strength gauge, his findings were:
Black springs came out weakest.
Chrome springs twice the value of black.
Zinc springs the toughest of all.

Black springs appear on 2 pivot Stratocasters, chrome on vintage models I am starting to think 4 black springs would suit my American Standard better than 3 chrome.

I'm just trying to learn this stuff, it's never ending with the Stratocaster isn't it!! Here's my 2 cents. If you are using heavy duty strings and the back of bridge plate is kicking up a bit then the front of the plate has less underside clearance and adjustment become more critical - I'd hazard a guess you had or still have bridge post/screw adjustment issue.

Last edited: Aug 18, 2015 11:28:59

Thanks, crumble, very interesting. Well, my '65 AVRI is set up exactly the same as my three '62 AVRIs, I mean exactly, and the tremolo still feels stiffer, so I don't think it's an adjustment issue. I've simply accepted that that's the way this guitar is, and simply have to give the trem a bit more 'welly' Picard Face Palm when playing it. It's OK, I don't mind. Anyway, thanks for reporting all these findings, that's very helpful!

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
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Ivan,

Have you tried switching one of the '62 AVRI trem bars into the '65 Strat? The '65 trem bar seems a little straighter and higher. Just wondered if the different shape made a difference.

Paul

Haven't tried that, Paul, but I'll give it a shot.

BTW, it's really not that big of a deal, I've gotten used to it. I'm a big believer in man-handling the guitar, I use 12s and a heavy pick and I dig in hard, so having to apply some muscle to the trem is just fine...

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Fair enough I quite like riding the tremolo Galaxy Trio style without accidentally detuning. A stiff tremolo arm has it's merits!

I just wanted to add for anyone interested.
Spring coils can get stuck together due to the chrome plating process, you can free them up by sideways flexing or bending.

I've got a '59 Sherwood Green on order. It seems like every two years I try a Strat and then sell it off. I agree with Ivan the newer AV reissue guitars are tops. They beat out the old AV line and I had a couple of Custom Shop Telecasters and the '64 RIs were better. I've got a couple of '64 RI Teles and 3 '65 RI Jazzmasters now in my stable. The Jazzmasters all have different strings on them and are useable for so many types of music. As for the Strats I had a sonic blue '59 when they first came out and a few of the '56 RIs but ended up selling them or trading them for other gear.

I just gotta figure the Strat thing out. I've always used 10s on my Strats and I think I need to approach it more like a "surf" guitar and go up to 11s or 12s. I lump my Strats in with my Teles for some reason and always go light. Anyway, I'm excited to be waiting on this guitar to be delivered.

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/

Bill, if Evan Foster could figure it out, you should be able to, as well! (he was using some sort of a sunburst '50s reissue with the Gilmour-mod last year at Surfer Joe and the subsequent European tour).

And a HUGE thumbs up to 11s or 12s on a Strat! The only way to roll, IMHO! Here's hoping you finally find a Strat you can truly connect with! (My problem is that I 'connect' with pretty much EVERY one I pick up - and then I want to buy it! Twisted Evil Damn, I love Strats!)

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

IvanP wrote:

And a HUGE thumbs up to 11s or 12s on a Strat!

Running 11 round-core round-wounds on my AV'65 and wouldn't have it any other way. Same 11's on the CAR Classic 60's Strat. That little thing makes a bigger difference than I thought possible.

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

I've tried the Roto purples and -nope...they're not for me.
Now I'm back to 11s flats Pyramids (11-52) on my Strat and a set of Roto PN11 (11-48) on my other Strat. It's such a difference of feel and tone. The Pyramids feel very stiff and deliver a huge amount of drip, while the Rotos feel much thinner and have that typical Strat sound. I think I should demo that some time...sadly you can't demo the feel Wink

The Hicadoolas

I think one of my problems with Strats is the strings. They remind me too much of Telecasters, which I use 9s on and use for all sorts of non-surf gigs. So historically I've tried to make sure my Strats can cover genres and that sacrfices good surf tone in the end.

I may try flats.

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/

My two cents: I know there are people on here that use flats on their Strats and like them a great deal, but in general I don't think flats and Strats mix very well. If you look at all the great '60s Strat players in our genre, they all used rounds: DD, Hank, the Atlantics, Paul Johnson and Edddie Bertrand.

BUT! Again, there are exceptions, but it is my firm belief that to sound 'right' for surf music, a Strat's gotta have heavy strings on it. We all know about DD, but Hank said that the Gibson Sonomatic strings he used from '59 through at least about '64 were around 13-56 in gauges. Jim Skiathitis told me the same, and during their reunion years he used 12s on his '62 L-series Strat. After all, back then 'slinky' strings didn't exist (as you know, guys like James Burton had to use a banjo string), so EVERYBODY used heavy strings. I think you can just get away with 11s and get the right surf tone and feel, but I use roundwound 12s, and love the results I get. 12s on a Strat are more challenging than 12s on a Jag due to Strat's longer scale, so it may not be the most comfortable thing right away, but I firmly believe it's worth the effort. You can really hit the strings hard at that point, and get all the beautiful overtones and overdrive from hard picking without going out of tune. You can also do much more aggressive double-picking, getting you closer to the DD sound.

Clearly a LOT of first-wave surf music was played with Strats - besides DD (and Hank and the Atlantics, who obviously are outside of the narrow classification), you have Jim Messina, Eddie Bertrand (played a Strat for most of the Belairs and the second half of the Showmen years), Paul Johnson (only ever played a Strat), Spickard and Carmen in the Chantays, Mercier & Glover in the Pyramids, Bobby Fuller, Al Nichol of the Crossfires, etc., etc.. I'd venture to say that more classic first-wave surf recordings were done with a Strat on lead than Jags and Jazzmasters combined! So, have at it!

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Great insight as usual Ivan. I agree on the heavy strings sounding better for the more aggressive double picked stuff. We agree a lot more than what you see historically in the archives here. Laughing

When I was an Aquanaut I had 2 Jaguars strung with the same 12 gauge flatwound strings.
I sadly can't play Jaguars anymore and I've got 3 Jazzmasters all with different gauges of strings, round and flat. I guess I'm more experimental now. Smile

The store I bought the Strat from was getting ready to ship it today and the bridge pickup was malfunctioning. Fender will send them another guitar but it won't be the same weight(seriously I wanted it because it was light). They could sell it to me, sign me up for the warranty, and then have me take it to a Fender repair and have it done for free. But I decided to just get a refund and wait for another one.

So oddly enough, the Stratocaster still eludes me. I really wanted a sunburst one anyway. Mad

"as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"

https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
https://www.facebook.com/TheDragstripVipers/

I absolutely agree that thin strings/strats/surf do NOT mix well. You get that typical strat sound and it does not play along with the tank.
But regarding the type of strings, IMO it depends on what you want to sound like. Rounds get you that gnarly DD sound (or that excellent IvanP sound Wink ) but for someone who is headed into a 'milder' direction, flats can sound excellent on a strat and make it sound more like a jag/jazz, but with it's own (strat)character.
Btw, Ivan, you actually once suggested the roto purples and that's the reason I've checked them out. I love the tone, but I hate the pain. I'm not a beginner guitar player and not a pro for sure, but when my body indicates that he is not happy, I have to switch back to something that won't cause harm in a long term. Wanna buy 2 packs of roto purples at a discount? Big Grin

The Hicadoolas

Last edited: Apr 26, 2016 00:00:57

BillAqua wrote:

Great insight as usual Ivan. I agree on the heavy strings sounding better for the more aggressive double picked stuff. We agree a lot more than what you see historically in the archives here. Laughing

Big Grin Thanks, Bill! Did we disagree in the past? I honestly don't remember!

The store I bought the Strat from was getting ready to ship it today and the bridge pickup was malfunctioning. Fender will send them another guitar but it won't be the same weight(seriously I wanted it because it was light).

My experience with the new Fender reissues is that they are pretty regular, there is a lot less variation between the guitars than there used to be. So, I think your odds of the next one also being pretty light are very good.

So oddly enough, the Stratocaster still eludes me. I really wanted a sunburst one anyway. Mad

Well, here's hoping you get EXACTLY what you want, and that it is finally the guitar you've been waiting for!

SanchoPansen wrote:

I absolutely agree that thin strings/strats/surf do NOT mix well. You get that typical strat sound and it does not play along with the tank.
But regarding the type of strings, IMO it depends on what you want to sound like. Rounds get you that gnarly DD sound (or that excellent IvanP sound Wink )

Big Grin

but for someone who is headed into a 'milder' direction, flats can sound excellent on a strat and make it sound more like a jag/jazz, but with it's own (strat)character.

I know there are a few SG101ers who use flats on their Strats and love it. I tried it for a while, but while I think flats work really well on the offsets, I just didn't think they were right for the Strat. They somehow made the guitar lesser, I thought.

Btw, Ivan, you actually once suggested the roto purples and that's the reason I've checked them out. I love the tone, but I hate the pain. I'm not a beginner guitar player and not a pro for sure, but when my body indicates that he is not happy, I have to switch back to something that won't cause harm in a long term.

Ah, sorry to hear that! What gauges do you usually play? I played 9s for the first six years of my guitar playing life, 10s for the next six years, 11s for the next 5-6, and only then switched to 12s. I built up to it, made sure my hand muscles could take heavy gauge. I've been using 12s (and only Roto Purples) for about 15 years now, and don't anticipate changing again, unless somehow forced.

Wanna buy 2 packs of roto purples at a discount? Big Grin

Smile Well, I honestly wouldn't mind, but I can buy them on juststrings.com for $5.21/set, so given the shipping from Austria, I doubt it's worth it! But maybe you could get them to some other worthy surf guitarist to check out?

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

IvanP wrote:

Ah, sorry to hear that! What gauges do you usually play? I played 9s for the first six years of my guitar playing life, 10s for the next six years, 11s for the next 5-6, and only then switched to 12s. I built up to it, made sure my hand muscles could take heavy gauge. I've been using 12s (and only Roto Purples) for about 15 years now, and don't anticipate changing again, unless somehow forced.

I am used to 10s or 11s for the last 28 years. Also tried mixed sets (10/12) and different stuff, but I think it is a physical thing. It's just not for me, but 11s are just fine.

IvanP wrote:

Smile Well, I honestly wouldn't mind, but I can buy them on juststrings.com for $5.21/set, so given the shipping from Austria, I doubt it's worth it! But maybe you could get them to some other worthy surf guitarist to check out?

Nah, I was just kidding Wink

The Hicadoolas

Last edited: Apr 27, 2016 01:14:00

That means a real friend!!!And this is a beauty!!!

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